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[magnetic_pole]

There's an interesting discussion going on right now at happydork's journal, Why am I not writing the stories I say I want to read? I know, I know, we've discussed this a hundred times already: why does fandom decry the lack of women and characters of color in our fic* and then turn around and focus on the attractive young white men? But this is a thoughtful post, with some very interesting comments, particularly on the ways in which fandom reinforces the perception of white men as our common denominator. (Note to self: my own thoughts are here.) Thanks, Sophie, for pointing me in the direction of this discussion!

* I was about to type "fic and art and vids," but then it occurs to me--thinking purely anecdotally--that art might be less skewed toward the white dudes than fic or vids. Or not? Something to think about.

Comments

Sorry I'm late to this conversation

[jazzypom]

But you know what, I hear you. I think after last year, with my various fandom hiccoughs, I decided to give my writing about Steve/Tony (two white dudes) for a while and focused on knitting instead, with the intention of phasing out of fandom and going into knitdom, to have a think about my fandom life as it were (and get some cool clothes and accessories, damn it. I hadn't knitted in so long).

Only thing though, earlier this year, a flister directed me to comment_fic (a fic prompting comm on LJ), and I noticed that there were various prompts being left untouched, and that There Was A Trend. This fen kept leaving YA prompts with the black guy/white girl pairing (whilst everyone was writing the white, gay guys, or white girl with much older white guys), and the prompts (of which there was negligible fic at the time) were over six months old.

Wanting to do A Good Deed and to reward faith (because come on? Throwing prompts into the cyberether, and no one claiming them for months? Faith), I went off, dug up the trades (it seem I had them for over a year and hadn't read them) got bitten by the bug of the pairing and it was off to the races, so to speak.

The thing is, as much as the comments on my fic have plummeted (from say, a good dozen or more to about, oh, one, or two on a good day), I'm pretty happy with the dynamics of the pairing I'm writing right now. Yes, the guy is black with Male Privilege, but he is aware of his position in White America, and the fact that he chooses a name ('Patriot') and serves a country where most of the public would look at him with mistrust, is pretty glaring. Or, the young white woman in this case who's a survivor of assault, and chooses not to be a victim. In addition, they are teenagers, so their emotions are skin deep and they tend to be careless, so it's been an interesting experience writing that (having their identities contribute to their personalities, but trying not to make them define them (which is hard).

In addition, the fact that I write for a comics based fandom is good, in the sense that there are a lot of characters that you can lead people into liking, with a scan of comics as proof. Considering say, a fandom like Leverage, where if you can't or don't watch the show (I live in the UK and don't really futz with torrents), I can't really see the awesomeness, and it's one less fandom I'm able to participate in.

But yeah, with regards to the whole potential of "Jazz, you're doing it wrong," I'm not adverse to taking the fic down and rewriting it and doing it right. I'm also not adverse to having the work called out on merit. Although I reserve the right to sit down, grapple with it, and reject the conservation if it comes up wanting though, because that is how I roll.

At the end of the day though, to be honest with you? A fair amount of people will write for comments and squee, and fic with white guys will get much more of a look in than fic with 'the other' re: comments and squee. Fandom is a market, and people know what sells, so to speak. Which is why, for example, you'll see say fic for Eames/Arthur vs Saito/anyone or Yusef/anyone for the same fandom. The market forces are against one.

So short of making people change their tastes for the type of product out there (which is why the reverse chroma fests and fests about women have been interesting and welcome), we'll get what we've gotten.

Re: Sorry I'm late to this conversation

[magnetic_pole]

Not late at all! In fact, Sophie just pointed out that the original meta writer posted something else today: How I can write more of the stories I say I want to read (I still need to read it, myself.)

I've been reading all of your posts about your relationship with fandom and your reservations about it (and one of the first things I remember about finding LJ, very shortly after discovering fanfic on the internet, was seeing your tag line "Being a fan helps no one" [or something to that effect]). I remember you had issues with the black man/(younger?) white woman pairing--am I remembering this correctly?--and with fandom was treating them, so I'm happy to hear you've found something about the pairing that interests you and inspires you and keeps you writing. (Selfishly, I don't want to lose you to knitting.)

The market forces are against one.

Heh. So true. LIFE is against one. But as I said to Kelly above, the smaller (non-major pairing) parts of fandom can always be a bit more vibrant, and it doesn't take that much.

(having their identities contribute to their personalities, but trying not to make them define them (which is hard)

This is the $60,000 question, or whatever the phrase is. (What's the British equivalent?) But I suppose that's the issue with good writing more generally, so it's not a bad problem to be working on. M.

Re: Sorry I'm late to this conversation

[jazzypom]

"Being a fan helps no one" [or something to that effect]).

Yes, that's still my signature line on LJ :). On my DW it's "To the uneducated, A is nowt but three sticks". I do live my fandom life according to the first rule though, because although I might squee, I do reserve the right to point out things which make me pause.

I remember you had issues with the black man/(younger?) white woman pairing--am I remembering this correctly?--and with fandom was treating them, so I'm happy to hear you've found something about the pairing that interests you and inspires you and keeps you writing.

Oh yeah, I had issues. I think I've gone into it with great detail, and I'm trying to keep my head down for the while, so to speak so [heavily redacted].

the smaller (non-major pairing) parts of fandom can always be a bit more vibrant, and it doesn't take that much.

Yeah, it can be. But like I said, it's pretty much two (canonically) gay white dudes in the fandom, which is okay, but not subversive (but then again, is fanfic subversive? As much as we romanticise it to be so, especially since we write the stories as things are and not as they could be? This in terms of being in lockstep with the echoes of privilege found in society).

This is the $60,000 question, or whatever the phrase is. (What's the British equivalent?) But I suppose that's the issue with good writing more generally, so it's not a bad problem to be working on. M.

Well, it makes you think.